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Safety Who Needs It
Posted: 02 May 2010 01:31 AM   [ Ignore ]
DIRNSA
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Yes the Republicans with their Drill Baby Drill fanaticism and disdane for consumer safety should be embarassed to show their faces anywhere in the world. But no they defend their love of Corporate First ...

The entire oil industry, will continue to use its vast wealth – unequalled by any global industry – to escape regulation, restriction, oversight and enforcement. BP, now the source of the last two great deadly US oil industry explosions, has shown us that this simply cannot be permitted.

Corporatti Safety

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Chad Rat
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Posted: 02 May 2010 03:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
DIRNSA
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Anyone with even a basic understanding of economics is familiar with the laws of supply and demand. While it is easy to fault the greed of oil companies as the great destroyers of the environment, are those pointing fingers ready to accept their own responsibility for creating the demands which drive oil companies to take greater risks to supply the products in demand? If there is no market you can’t sell no matter how good the product. Are all the environmental worry-warts ready to give up on any of these to guarantee clean oceans?

http://www.ranken-energy.com/Products from Petroleum.htm

Corporate greed is only individual greed magnified.When individuals are willing to give up some of their absolutely “must haves” perhaps corporations will see there is no money to be made by putting the environment in jeopardy. Even as you peddal around town on your bicycle protesting the gas guzzling cars you pass,remember petroleum or petroleum based products were used to make that little one seater you’re riding too.

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Posted: 02 May 2010 04:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
DIRNSA
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And of course there isn’t one Democrat that gets money from oil, right. Not really.
In 2007
http://mrssatan.blogspot.com/2007/09/democrats-dirty-dirty-oil-money-scandal.html
In 2008
http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2008/08/18/oil-money-and-the-democrats/
In 2009
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/30/oil-funding-everyone/

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Posted: 03 May 2010 01:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
DIRNSA
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It’s tough to argue with somebody that has no idea of what supply and demand is let alone the economics of global oil industry and it’s speculative driven markets, heavily subsidise activities and nationalistic regulative authorities. Then to top it off those ignorant of that basic level of knowledge attempt to rationalise greed an essential element in preventing safety as a good and healthy activity. Profit orientation and greed are related but most certainly not the same.
I suppose in the modern sense we are looking at corporate acedia rather than greed however greed may most certainly be the driving factor. Corporations have a responsibility for the safety of their employees and surroundings. Most everywhere there are regulations either private or public which must be followed. It is evolving that BP did not meet its obligations in deed or good faith. What we have here is the activity of the corporatti. The corporate will pay dearly for this abuse. It is impossible to tell at this stage if the deaths caused by the accident were just that or if it was the much more sinister results of greed. What is however known is that the corporate took short cuts which have directly caused the environmental disaster unfolding today.

It is this form of activity which is whole heartily supported by the so called conservatives Corporate First ideology. Driving a car did not cause this disaster and only the most twisted mind set could would rationalise such an event. What is clear is that working together with the corporate in good faith does not work. Whether the industry is finance, chemical or oil the people have been stabbed in the back time and time again. Political parties that put the Corporate First are the primary villain’s. And those who support such organisations are the active participants or advocates of a corporate state of fascism. Evil incorporated.

Consumer protection allows profit orientated business to succeed. Reckless irresponsible behavior is not an element of supply and demand.

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Posted: 03 May 2010 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
DIRNSA
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It’s even tougher to argue with someone who has already determined the culpability for an accident without knowing or acknowledging ALL the facts.
Since you are so eager to affix blame why not address that which is due the Federal Government and specifically OSHA for it’s failure to enforce its own laws choosing instead to issue warnings and threats of fines.If they determined the sites to be such hazards why weren’t they shut down until corrections were implemented? Are fines a guarantee of employee safety? Is this the act of a responsible government concerned for the safety of its citizens or one more concerned with economic impacts? And your solution is to add more government beauracracy to the mix. Sure BP may have been in error but why with such an outstandingly poor safety record have they been granted license to operate in waters under Federal jurisdiction by the same government sworn to protect its citizens.
[color=blue]Again, a blast involving BP Company is already facing fines over safety
An enormous oil spill. A fiery explosion. Eleven presumed dead. And more questions about another catastrophic accident tied to an all-too-familiar company: BP

Though the Deepwater Horizon was owned and operated by Swiss company Transocean Ltd., it was leased by BP, a London-based multinational oil giant with the worst safety record of any major oil company operating refineries in the United States.

In October, Secretary of Labor Hilda Solis proposed fining BP Products North America Inc. $87.4 million in penalties for the company’s alleged failure to correct systemic problems that the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and others identified after BP’s Texas City refinery exploded in 2005.

That accident killed 15 people and seriously injured more than 170 others.

The proposed fine is the largest in OSHA’s history. The previous record — a $21 million fine — also was issued against BP after various government investigations uncovered a systemic and cultural disregard for safety after the 2005 explosion.

And in March, OSHA proposed an additional $3 million in fines against BP North America Inc. and BP-Husky Refining LLC for “exposing workers to serious hazards” and to potential injury and death from explosion-related building collapses of nine buildings at its Ohio refinery.

“OSHA has found that BP often ignored or severely delayed fixing known hazards in its refineries,” Solis said. “There is no excuse for taking chances with people’s lives. BP must fix the hazards now.”

Focus on refineries
Since then, OSHA has focused its stepped-up enforcement efforts at all BP’s downstream operations, including refineries in Texas, Indiana, California, Washington and Ohio, U.S. Energy Information Administration records show.

BP continues to fight the latest proposed fines.

The company claims to have met OSHA safety improvement goals required in Texas City and has spent more than a billion dollars in improvements since the 2005 disaster.

BP officials did not comment for this story.

In an earlier statement, Texas City refinery manager Keith Casey said, “We remain committed to further enhancing our safety and compliance systems and achieving our goal of becoming an industry leader in process safety.”

Widespread concerns
Meanwhile, other government safety regulators, as well as state attorneys and U.S. Department of Justice prosecutors have targeted BP for alleged safety or environmental violations in various operations, including drilling in Alaska, refining operations in various states as well as minor accidents aboard other offshore platforms, according to records and press releases.

It has not yet been determined what might have caused the fire and explosion on the Deepwater Horizon, which caught fire as it was drilling for oil deep beneath the Gulf of Mexico.

Some critics, like Beaumont plaintiffs attorney Brent Coon, worry that BP may once again have neglected safety issues in its aggressive pursuit of profits.

Coon represented more than 100 people who filed suit against BP after the 2005 blast.

“They’re very smart, but they’re very greedy, and they know full well the limits of deferring maintenance and pushing the envelope and they’re willing to take those risks,” Coon said. “They make a conscious decision to accept a higher degree of risk of major catastrophes than other companies do.”

Lynne Baker, a spokesperson for United Steelworkers Union, which represents about 30,000 refinery workers nationwide, argues, however, that BP clearly has made progress.

“In spite of the company missing some of the OSHA deadlines and getting the increased fines, they have worked hard to get themselves in a better position in all the refineries,” Baker said.

BP increasingly is relying on its offshore operations in the Gulf of Mexico for its US profits, since refinery revenues have fallen with the price of oil, its most recent 2009 annual report shows.

Regardless of what safety inspectors eventually conclude about the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig disaster, BP will be held responsible for cleaning up the oil spill. This week, the company focused its onshore activity in five locations in the potentially affected states: Venice, La.; Pascagoula and Biloxi, Miss.; Mobile, Ala.; and Pensacola, Fla.

BP Group Chief Executive Tony Hayward has pledged that BP will cooperate fully with all government investigations.

41.693794 -88.144606
May 2, 2010 Posted by Jack Benton | Environmental, LinkedIn, News, OSHA Investigation, OSHA News, Oil Spill & Disaster, Public Safety, Workplace Safety | BP Oil, News, Oil Spill, OSHA Investigation | No Comments Yet [/color]

Without getting into the complexities of economics,suffice it to say that you may have the next best thing since sliced bread but if no one wants it it is worthless or you may have something inane but everyone wants one so you have a potetial goldmine.

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Posted: 03 May 2010 01:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
DIRNSA
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Most unusual - your position is that the corporations should be responsible for their actions, that there should be no regulation or oversight but you blame the government for not having sufficient regulation or oversight. flip flop what can one say eh JK. With no facts in you attempt to blame the government for the incident and not the owner/operators/contractors of the well. I did not see any facts being presented. Is it also your opinion that the government should own the well, rig and all related operations? Should the government manufacture and regulate itself? BP is the fourth largest corporation in the world. It has access to scientific knowledge, materials and machines that governments usually just dream about. Do you even know what your arguing about JK? Is it your conclusion that there should be no consumer safety?

There is one well directly involved here JK. A new planned high tech job with a whole string of confirmations from BP that all was in order. It was impossible for anything to happen. Convincing documents and scientific evidence.  Don’t even pretend that the rig operators and BP are not seamless. Do you believe there should be a whole team of government investigators stationed on the rig and in BP’s offices to control everything before and as it happens?
““This event has called attention to fact that there is a long-standing safety problem in offshore industry,” he says, noting that he gets phone calls from whistleblowers working on rigs who complain about the work conditions and the environmental damage caused by such operations.”“
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/26/big-oil-fought-off-new-sa_n_552575.html
An inclusive article which sheds a bit more light.

According to newspapers there is a big rush on by companies to make sure they have installed the proper equipment and it is in working order. That’s nice eh. Why would they do that unless they were responsible to do so.

Checks and balances are exactly what they are. What you are suggesting is a level of bureaucracy which would make operation nearly impossible. The corporations have full knowledge of the requirements of operation. Are you now condoning what I would call criminal activity by the corporate. If you run through a red light JK according to you blame should be placed on the policeman or city hall? Should the mayor get the traffic violation? If you go out and kill someone with a gun do you arrest the Governor? The corporate is responsible JK. no matter how hard you try to rationalise their innocence.

If what your trying to present is that Corporations should be simply shut down and refused business permits instead of being fined I would disagree. However a company with the track record of BP (glad you picked up on the refinery article I posted) and Halliburton maybe they just deserve that result. If you audit a company especially in the safety area and locate faults you advise the company of those faults and follow guidelines, regulations and laws. You do not make them up as you go. You might even be suggesting greater regulation, it is just hard to tell. I sincerely hope you are and have finally become aware of the need for consumer protection.

Full responsibility is on the corporate not the messenger.

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Posted: 03 May 2010 02:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
DIRNSA
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Full responsibility is on the corporate not the messenger.
Jim, If you are saying the full responsibility for consumer protection lies with the corporate that is like asking the fox to guard the hen house. If in hindsight the government realizes they authorized drilling without positive proof of safety mechanisms in place and in working order that in no way exonorates them from culpability.I don’t know which particular comment I made that would give you the impression I am against government regulation. On the contrary, I support responsible controls including those that already exist.My argument is that the existing controls were not being enforced. The FACT is that the government allowed this company to continue to operate despite a negative safety record and a history of ignoring fine deadlines. That is not in the best interest of the consumer or the employees of the company.There is no arguing that BP takes risks that other companies will not or can not take.But these risks are being taken under the supposed supervison of the government to ensure safety for both human and environmental elements.That the operation failed can be blamed on both BP for taking the risks and the government for being lax in allowing the loopholes in enforcement. As a supporter of the nothing is black and white theory how can you affix blame solely to a corporate decision that was at best a gamble without attributing at least a portion of the blame on the government which gave them the license to take that gamble?
The massive $600 million rig, which holds the record for boring the deepest oil and gas well in the world—at 35,050 feet - had passed three recent federal inspections, the most recent on April 1, since it moved to its current location in January. The cause of the explosion has not been determined
This is from the article you cite.A green light to continue operations as of April 1 from the Federal government as well as noting that the cause of the explosion is yet undetermined.And yet you have already tried and convicted BP based on historical events and not this incident.If as you say the oil industry has much greater information and technology available to it than the government does,how does that justify the government regulating it? Would you inspect nuclear power plants and make rules with people trained in the arts and not science and technology? If the government which can explore space does not have the capabilities to understand oil drilling then they should either not allow it or train people to be capable of overseeing it in a professional manner. It would appear to me that lack of expertise is not the problem but lack of enforcement is.
Corporations will try and succeed at anything to increase productivity,hence the need for restrictions.Allowing corporations to ignore or bypass the restrictions is the fault of those charged with enforcing the restrictions.Lobbyists can use all the tricks available to them but in the end the responsibility lies with our elected officials as to what is enacted or enforced.

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Posted: 03 May 2010 05:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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BP came so close to getting a

federal award honoring offshore oil companies for “outstanding safety and pollution prevention”

.

If BP was such a bad company doing so many bad things, why this award? Why were they even being considered?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/04/30/in-ironic-twist-bp-finalist-for-pollution-prevention-award/

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Posted: 04 May 2010 12:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Kaipo
Nice find. My undocumented opinion would be superior monetary application and an army of lobbyists to be able to get on the list. You may note that the BP unit in question did not win any award. BP has not won the award in 18 years.
I be the record of the other finalists are not exactly rosy either.

Now this seems to be an award winning cop out

A spokeswoman for the Interior Department’s Minerals Management Service said she did not know which of the three finalists for the non-monetary award had been selected, nor did she say whether the current circumstances could influence the decision if BP was the winner. Winners of the award are kept secret until the ceremony, she said.

Not that she knows the nominated winner but that if it turned out to be BP she could at least say that it most certainly would influence the decision. Sometimes PC sucks. I think it would be nice to see that ol’ plaque with a few empty years on it saying all major players are pigs and it’s time to clean up the pen.

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Posted: 04 May 2010 02:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Precisely JK, those damn foxes, and that is why the corporate must be regulated. Have you seen anywhere where I said regulations were adequate? As with previous examples given we must work with the corporate as they are the business entities delivering certain services, but, you cannot trust them in deed nor good faith. As I have pointed out there is an entire political party mind set which is in opposition to regulation and hell bent on good faith. It is not a matter of buying one vote here or there it is an entire culture which puts the corporate before the people.

It is not the governments fault if the corporate decides for whatever reason to ignore safety guidelines. It is the corporates responsibility. If the corporate knows they are endangering life and environment by taking short cuts and rationalising existing guidelines or if they know the guidelines are insufficient they can be held responsible. Not the government.

I am very happy you are now in favor of regulation and accept the corporate is responsible. I know of no one who is in favor of bad regulation so there is nothing to argue is there?

Now we get to your point of blaming the government and/or increasing regulation without knowing the facts of the case. It would seem from an abundance of reports that safety is not taken seriously. The world is not perfect so there will nearly always be discrepancies in compliance. Compliance is not black and white there is a great deal of subjectivity involved in assessing degrees of compliance. It does however seem fair to say that existing regulations do not have the teeth necessary to insure prompt and complete compliance. That suggests that stricter regulation is required. That could mean tightening the screws on existing rules or devising totally new ones which meet today’s standards. As far as we know at this stage the work being carried out by Halliburton was in response to regulations or maybe BP was simply dragging it’s feet to see what it could get away with or blatant non-compliance as no accident has happened. The cause of the explosion may have nothing at all to do with the cause of the leakage. To many variables. Jumping to conclusions that enforcement was not being carried out because BP has such a poor track record is really a great leap.

The Interior Department in conducting a thorough internal review and supporters of Drill Baby Drill are swallowing their words. Unfortunately it takes a catastrophe to get serious considerations underway. I do not say results as as we have seen the Republican stand is no regulation and they will do anything to push their ideology of corporate first.

One thing is absolutely clear and that the corporate is responsible for this catastrophe not the government. I find it quite humorous that you have done an 180 and now advocate a Nanny State solution.

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Posted: 04 May 2010 08:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Jim,
I haven’t done a 180,360 or 540. It’s just that you have decided to listen for a change. If corporations are allowed to operate below minimum safety standards it is the responsibility of those who set the standards to enforce compliance. Check out this article:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/5/4/863348/-Whistleblower:-Gulf-Disaster-Is-Latest-in-Long-History-of-BP-Putting-Profits-Before-Safety
As early as 2008 discrepencies in documentation were reported and yet the Dept. of Interior continued to license BP knowing full well they were not in compliance.Those entrusted with ensuring the safe operation of the industry failed to do their job. If the non-compliance issues were known only to BP the blame would lie entirely on them but that isn’t the case here.So if there is corporate blame,add the U.S. Dept. of the Interior to the list of guilty corporations.

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Posted: 05 May 2010 01:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Congratulations on finally after nearly a decade of putting the corporate first you have woken up to the simple truths that I have been advocating for the last decade.  I can see you are still having troubles with acceptance by your rationalisation that it is really the governments fault.  But it is a great leap forward.  The article is a damning chronicle of corporate indifference and criminal activities of the corporatti. Maybe now you will recognise the reality of my argument that the corporatti are evil incorporated.

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Posted: 05 May 2010 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Picture this. A mass murderer is caught and convicted yet allowed to go free and pursue his behavior again and again he kills. Is it his fault another person is dead or does part of the blame lie with the authorities whose job it is to enforce the laws against murder? By identifying this one person as a mass murderer does that also implicate all men as murderers?
I recognize that in this case BP shares a portion of the blame but I don’t accept that all corporations are inherently evil any more than I accept that all men are good.The article also includes some damning facts about the MMS and approval of incomplete documents.Could you have received approval for your new home with a set of incomplete plans and sketches? This is just another case of nothing black and white Jim. If you really want to get nit picky it can be claimed that because the government receives income in the form of taxes from this rig that they are in fact co-owners of it.

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Posted: 06 May 2010 05:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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LRLAOOOA

That’s laughing and rolling and laughing again over and over and over again


Needed something special for JK’s desperation.

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Posted: 06 May 2010 10:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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And a typical non reply from Jim for something he cannot rationalize away.

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.

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Posted: 06 May 2010 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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One can’t reason with delusional people.

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